Jon Rappoport interview of ex vaccine researcher
JON RAPPOPORT
Q:
You were once certain that vaccines were the hallmark of good
medicine.
A: Yes I was. I helped develop a few vaccines. I won't say
which ones.
Q: Why not?
A: I want to preserve my
privacy.
Q: So you think you could have problems if you came out into the
open?
A: I believe I could lose my pension.
Q: On what
grounds?
A: The grounds don't matter. These people have ways of causing
you problems, when you were once part of the Club. I know one or two people who
were put under surveillance, who were harassed.
Q: Harassed by
whom?
A: The FBI.
Q: Really?
A: Sure. The FBI used other
pretexts. And the IRS can come calling too.
Q: So much for free
speech.
A: I was "part of the inner circle." If now I began to name names
and make specific accusations against researchers, I could be in a world of
trouble.
Q: What is at the bottom of these efforts at
harassment?
A: Vaccines are the last defense of modern medicine. Vaccines
are the ultimate justification for the overall "brilliance" of modern
medicine.
Q: Do you believe that people should be allowed to choose
whether they should get vaccines?
A: On a political level, yes. On a
scientific level, people need information, so that they can choose well. It's
one thing to say choice is good. But if the atmosphere is full of lies, how can
you choose? Also, if the FDA were run by honorable people, these vaccines
would not be granted licenses. They would be investigated to within an inch of
their lives.
Q: There are medical historians who state that the overall
decline of illnesses was not due to vaccines.
A: I know. For a long time,
I ignored their work.
Q: Why?
A: Because I was afraid of what I
would find out. I was in the business of developing vaccines. My livelihood
depended on continuing that work.
Q: And then?
A: I did my own
investigation.
Q: What conclusions did you come to?
A: The decline
of disease is due to improved living conditions.
Q: What
conditions?
A: Cleaner water. Advanced sewage systems. Nutrition. Fresher
food. A decrease in poverty. Germs may be everywhere, but when you are
healthy, you don't contract the diseases as easily.
Q: What did you feel
when you completed your own investigation?
A: Despair. I realized I was
working a sector based on a collection of lies.
Q: Are some vaccines more
dangerous than others?
A: Yes. The DPT shot, for example. The MMR. But
some lots of a vaccine are more dangerous than other lots of the same vaccine.
As far as I'm concerned, all vaccines are dangerous.
Q: Why?
A:
Several reasons. They involve the human immune system in a process that tends to
compromise immunity. They can actually cause the disease they are supposed to
prevent. They can cause other diseases than the ones they are supposed to
prevent.
Q: Why are we quoted statistics which seem to prove that
vaccines have been tremendously successful at wiping out diseases?
A:
Why? To give the illusion that these vaccines are useful. If a vaccine
suppresses visible symptoms of a disease like measles, everyone assumes that the
vaccine is a success. But, under the surface, the vaccine can harm the immune
system itself. And if it causes other diseases -- say, meningitis -- that fact
is masked, because no one believes that the vaccine can do that. The connection
is overlooked.
Q: It is said that the smallpox vaccine wiped out smallpox
in England.
A: Yes. But when you study the available statistics, you get
another picture.
Q: Which is?
A: There were cities in England
where people who were not vaccinated did not get smallpox. There were places
where people who were vaccinated experienced smallpox epidemics. And smallpox
was already on the decline before the vaccine was introduced.
Q: So
you're saying that we have been treated to a false history.
A: Yes.
That's exactly what I'm saying. This is a history that has been cooked up to
convince people that vaccines are invariably safe and effective.
Q: Now,
you worked in labs. Where purity was an issue.
A: The public believes
that these labs, these manufacturing facilities are the cleanest places in the
world. That is not true. Contamination occurs all the time. You get all sorts of
debris introduced into vaccines.
Q: For example, the SV40 monkey virus
slips into the polio vaccine.
A: Well yes, that happened. But that's not
what I mean. The SV40 got into the polio vaccine because the vaccine was made by
using monkey kidneys. But I'm talking about something else. The actual lab
conditions. The mistakes. The careless errors. SV40, which was later found in
cancer tumors -- that was what I would call a structural problem. It was an
accepted part of the manufacturing process. If you use monkey kidneys, you open
the door to germs which you don't know are in those kidneys.
Q: Okay, but
let's ignore that distinction between different types of contaminants for a
moment. What contaminants did you find in your many years of work with
vaccines?
A: All right. I'll give you some of what I came across, and
I'll also give you what colleagues of mine found. Here's a partial list. In the
Rimavex measles vaccine, we found various chicken viruses. In polio vaccine, we
found acanthamoeba, which is a so-called "brain-eating" amoeba.
Simian cytomegalovirus in polio vaccine. Simian foamy virus in the rotavirus
vaccine. Bird-cancer viruses in the MMR vaccine. Various micro-organisms in the
anthrax vaccine. I've found potentially dangerous enzyme inhibitors in several
vaccines. Duck, dog, and rabbit viruses in the rubella vaccine. Avian leucosis
virus in the flu vaccine. Pestivirus in the MMR vaccine.
Q: Let me get
this straight. These are all contaminants which don't belong in the
vaccines.
A: That's right. And if you try to calculate what damage these
contaminants can cause, well, we don't really know, because no testing has been
done, or very little testing. It's a game of roulette. You take your chances.
Also, most people don't know that some polio vaccines, adenovirus vaccines,
rubella and hep A and measles vaccines have been made with aborted human fetal
tissue. I have found what I believed were bacterial fragments and poliovirus in
these vaccines from time to time -- which may have come from that fetal tissue.
When you look for contaminants in vaccines, you can come up with material that
IS puzzling. You know it shouldn't be there, but you don't know exactly what
you've got. I have found what I believed was a very small "fragment" of human
hair and also human mucus. I have found what can only be called "foreign
protein," which could mean almost anything. It could mean protein from
viruses.
Q: Alarm bells are ringing all over the place.
A: How do
you think I felt? Remember, this material is going into the bloodstream without
passing through some of the ordinary immune defenses.
Q: How were your
findings received?
A: Basically, it was, don't worry, this can't be
helped. In making vaccines, you use various animals' tissue, and that's where
this kind of contamination enters in. Of course, I'm not even mentioning the
standard chemicals like formaldehyde, mercury, and aluminum which are purposely
put into vaccines.
Q: This information is pretty staggering.
A:
Yes. And I'm just mentioning some of the biological contaminants. Who knows how
many others there are? Others we don't find because we don't think to look for
them. If tissue from, say, a bird is used to make a vaccine, how many possible
germs can be in that tissue? We have no idea.We have no idea what they might be,
or what effects they could have on humans.
Q: And beyond the purity
issue?
A: You are dealing with the basic faulty premise about
vaccines. That they intricately stimulate the immune system to create the
conditions for immunity from disease. That is the bad premise. It doesn't work
that way. A vaccine is supposed to "create" antibodies which, indirectly, offer
protection against disease. However, the immune system is much larger and more
involved than antibodies and their related "killer cells."
Q: The immune
system is?
A: The entire body, really. Plus the mind. It's all immune
system, you might say. That is why you can have, in the middle of an epidemic,
those individuals who remain healthy.
Q: So the level of general health
is important.
A: More than important. Vital.
Q: How are vaccine
statistics falsely presented?
A: There are many ways. For example,
suppose that 25 people who have received the hepatitis B vaccine come down with
hepatitis. Well, hep B is a liver disease. But you can call liver disease many
things. You can change the diagnosis. Then, you've concealed the root cause of
the problem.
Q: And that happens?
A: All the time. It HAS to
happen, if the doctors automatically assume that people who get vaccines DO NOT
come down with the diseases they are now supposed to be protected from. And that
is exactly what doctors assume. You see, it's circular reasoning. It's a closed
system. It admits no fault. No possible fault. If a person who gets a vaccine
against hepatitis gets hepatitis, or gets some other disease, the automatic
assumption is, this had nothing to do with the vaccine.
Q: In your years
working in the vaccine establishment, how many doctors did you encounter who
admitted that vaccines were a problem?
A: None. There were a few who
privately questioned what they were doing. But they would never go public, even
within their companies.
Q: What was the turning point for you?
A:
I had a friend whose baby died after a DPT shot.
Q: Did you
investigate?
A: Yes, informally. I found that this baby was completely
healthy before the vaccination. There was no reason for his death, except the
vaccine. That started my doubts. Of course, I wanted to believe that the baby
had gotten a bad shot from a bad lot. But as I looked into this further, I found
that was not the case in this instance. I was being drawn into a spiral of doubt
that increased over time. I continued to investigate. I found that, contrary to
what I thought, vaccines are not tested in a scientific way.
Q: What do
you mean?
A: For example, no long-term studies are done on any vaccines.
Long-term follow-up is not done in any careful way. Why? Because, again, the
assumption is made that vaccines do not cause problems. So why should anyone
check? On top of that, a vaccine reaction is defined so that all bad reactions
are said to occur very soon after the shot is given. But that does not make
sense.
Q: Why doesn't it make sense?
A: Because the vaccine
obviously acts in the body for a long period of time after it is given. A
reaction can be gradual. Deterioration can be gradual. Neurological problems can
develop over time. They do in various conditions, even according to a
conventional analysis. So why couldn't that be the case with vaccines? If
chemical poisoning can occur gradually, why couldn't that be the case with a
vaccine which contains mercury?
Q: And that is what you found?
A:
Yes. You are dealing with correlations, most of the time.Correlations are not
perfect. But if you get 500 parents whose children have suffered neurological
damage during a one-year period after having a vaccine, this should be
sufficient to spark off an intense investigation.
Q: Has it been
enough?
A: No. Never. This tells you something right away.
Q:
Which is?
A: The people doing the investigation are not really interested
in looking at the facts. They assume that the vaccines are safe. So, when they
do investigate, they invariably come up with exonerations of the vaccines.
They say, "This vaccine is safe." But what do they base those judgments on? They
base them on definitions and ideas which automatically rule out a condemnation
of the vaccine.
Q: There are numerous cases where a vaccine campaign has
failed. Where people have come down with the disease against which they
were vaccinated.
A: Yes, there are many such instances. And there the
evidence is simply ignored. It's discounted. The experts say, if they say
anything at all, that this is just an isolated situation, but overall the
vaccine has been shown to be safe. But if you add up all the vaccine campaigns
where damage and disease have occurred, you realize that these are NOT isolated
situations.
Q: Did you ever discuss what we are talking about here with
colleagues, when you were still working in the vaccine
establishment?
A: Yes I did.
Q: What happened?
A: Several
times I was told to keep quiet. It was made clear that I should go back to work
and forget my misgivings. On a few occasions, I encountered fear. Colleagues
tried to avoid me. They felt they could be labeled with "guilt by association."
All in all, though, I behaved myself.I made sure I didn't create problems for
myself.
Q: If vaccines actually do harm, why are they given?
A:
First of all, there is no "if." They do harm. It becomes a more difficult
question to decide whether they do harm in those people who seem to show no
harm. Then you are dealing with the kind of research which should be done, but
isn't. Researchers should be probing to discover a kind of map, or flow chart,
which shows exactly what vaccines do in the body from the moment they enter.
This research has not been done. As to why they are given, we could sit here for
two days and discuss all the reasons. As you've said many times, at different
layers of the system people have their motives. Money, fear of losing a job, the
desire to win brownie points, prestige, awards, promotion, misguided idealism,
unthinking habit, and so on. But, at the highest levels of the medical cartel,
vaccines are a top priority because they cause a weakening of the immune system.
I know that may be hard to accept, but it's true. The medical cartel, at the
highest level, is not out to help people, it is out to harm them, to weaken
them. To kill them. At one point in my career, I had a long conversation
with a man who occupied a high government position in an African nation. He told
me that he was well aware of this. He told me that WHO is a front for these
depopulation interests. There is an underground, shall we say, in Africa,
made up of various officials who are earnestly trying to change the lot of the
poor. This network of people knows what is going on. They know that vaccines
have been used, and are being used, to destroy their countries, to make them
ripe for takeover by globalist powers. I have had the opportunity to speak with
several of these people from this network.
Q: Is Thabo Mbeki, the
president of South Africa, aware of the situation?
A: I would say he is
partially aware. Perhaps he is not utterly convinced, but he is on the way to
realizing the whole truth. He already knows that HIV is a hoax. He knows that
the AIDS drugs are poisons which destroy the immune system. He also knows that
if he speaks out, in any way, about the vaccine issue, he will be branded a
lunatic. He has enough trouble after his stand on the AIDS issue.
Q: This
network you speak of.
A: It has accumulated a huge amount of information
about vaccines. The question is, how is a successful strategy going to be
mounted? For these people, that is a difficult issue.
Q: And in the
industrialized nations?
A: The medical cartel has a stranglehold, but it
is diminishing. Mainly because people have the freedom to question medicines.
However, if the choice issue [the right to take or reject any medicine] does not
gather steam, these coming mandates about vaccines against biowarefare germs are
going to win out. This is an important time.
Q: The furor over the
hepatits B vaccine seems one good avenue.
A: I think so, yes. To say that
babies must have the vaccine-and then in the next breath, admitting that a
person gets hep B from sexual contacts and shared needles -- is a ridiculous
juxtaposition. Medical authorities try to cover themselves by saying that 20,000
or so children in the US get hep B every year from "unknown causes," and that's
why every baby must have the vaccine. I dispute that 20,00 figure and the
so-called studies that back it up.
Q: Andrew Wakefield, the British MD
who uncovered the link between the MMR vaccine and autism, has just been fired
from his job in a London hospital.
A: Yes. Wakefield performed a great
service. His correlations between the vaccine and autism are stunning. Perhaps
you know that Tony Blair's wife is involved with alternative health. There is
the possibility that their child has not been given the MMR. Blair recently
side-stepped the question in press interviews, and made it seem that he was
simply objecting to invasive questioning of his "personal and family life." In
any event, I believe his wife has been muzzled. I think, if given the chance,
she would at least say she is sympathetic to all the families who have come
forward and stated that their children were severely damaged by the
MMR.
Q: British reporters should try to get through to her.
A:
They have been trying. But I think she has made a deal with her husband to keep
quiet, no matter what. She could do a great deal of good if she breaks her
promise. I have been told she is under pressure, and not just from her husband.
At the level she occupies, MI6 and British health authorities get into the act.
It is thought of as a matter of national security.
Q: Well, it is
national security, once you understand the medical cartel.
A: It is
global security. The cartel operates in every nation. It zealously guards the
sanctity of vaccines. Questioning these vaccines is on the same level as a
Vatican bishop questioning the sanctity of the sacrament of the Eucharist in the
Catholic Church.
Q: I know that a Hollywood celebrity stating publicly
that he will not take a vaccine is committing career suicide.
A:
Hollywood is linked very powerfully to the medical cartel. There are several
reasons, but one of them is simply that an actor who is famous can draw a huge
amount of publicity if he says ANYTHING. In 1992, I was present at your
demonstration against the FDA in downtown Los Angeles. One or two actors spoke
against the FDA. Since that time, you would be hard pressed to find an actor who
has spoken out in any way against the medical cartel.
Q: Within the
National Institutes of Health, what is the mood, what is the basic frame of
mind?
A: People are competing for research monies. The last thing they
think about is challenging the status quo. They are already in an intramural war
for that money. They don't need more trouble. This is a very insulated system.
It depends on the idea that, by and large, modern medicine is very successful on
every frontier. To admit systemic problems in any area is to cast doubt on the
whole enterprise. You might therefore think that NIH is the last place one
should think about holding demonstrations. But just the reverse is true. If five
thousand people showed up there demanding an accounting of the actual benefits
of that research system, demanding to know what real health benefits have been
conferred on the public from the billions of wasted dollars funneled to that
facility, something might start. A spark might go off. You might get, with
further demonstrations, all sorts of fall-out. Researchers -- a few -- might
start leaking information.
Q: A good idea.
A: People in suits
standing as close to the buildings as the police will allow. People in business
suits, in jogging suits, mothers and babies. Well-off people. Poor people. All
sorts of people.
Q: What about the combined destructive power of a number
of vaccines given to babies these days?
A: It is a travesty and a crime.
There are no real studies of any depth which have been done on that. Again, the
assumption is made that vaccines are safe, and therefore any number of vaccines
given together are safe as well. But the truth is, vaccines are not safe.
Therefore the potential damage increases when you give many of them in a short
time period.
Q: Then we have the fall flu season.
A: Yes. As if
only in the autumn do these germs float in to the US from Asia. The public
swallows that premise. If it happens in April, it is a bad cold. If it happens
in October, it is the flu.
Q: Do you regret having worked all those years
in the vaccine field?
A: Yes. But after this interview, I'll regret it a
little less. And I work in other ways. I give out information to certain
people, when I think they will use it well.
Q: What is one thing you want
the public to understand?
A: That the burden of proof in establishing the
safety and efficacy of vaccines is on the people who manufacture and license
them for public use. Just that. The burden of proof is not on you or me. And for
proof you need well-designed long-term studies. You need extensive follow-up.
You need to interview mothers and pay attention to what mothers say about their
babies and what happens to them after vaccination. You need all these
things. The things that are not there.
Q: The things that are not
there.
A: Yes.
Q: To avoid any confusion, I'd like you to review,
once more, the disease problems that vaccines can cause. Which diseases, how
that happens.
A: We are basically talking about two potential harmful
outcomes. One, the person gets the disease from the vaccine. He gets the disease
which the vaccine is supposed to protect him from. Because, some version of the
disease is in the vaccine to begin with. Or two, he doesn't get THAT disease,
but at some later time, maybe right away, maybe not, he develops another
condition which is caused by the vaccine. That condition could be autism, what's
called autism, or it could be some other disease like meningitis. He could
become mentally disabled.
Q: Is there any way to compare the relative
frequency of these different outcomes?
A: No. Because the follow-up is
poor. We can only guess. If you ask, out of a population of a hundred thousand
children who get a measles vaccine, how many get the measles, and how many
develop other problems from the vaccine, there is a no reliable answer. That is
what I'm saying. Vaccines are superstitions. And with superstitions, you don't
get facts you can use. You only get stories, most of which are designed to
enforce the superstition. But, from many vaccine campaigns, we can piece
together a narrative that does reveal some very disturbing things. People have
been harmed. The harm is real, and it can be deep and it can mean death.
The harm is NOT limited to a few cases, as we have been led to believe.In the
US, there are groups of mothers who are testifying about autism and childhood
vaccines. They are coming forward and standing up at meetings.They are
essentially trying to fill in the gap that has been created by the researchers
and doctors who turn their backs on the whole thing.
Q: Let me ask you
this. If you took a child in, say, Boston and you raised that child with good
nutritious food and he exercised every day and he was loved by his parents, and
he didn't get the measles vaccine, what would be his health status compared with
the average child in Boston who eats poorly and watches five hours of TV a day
and gets the measles vaccine?
A: Of course there are many factors
involved, but I would bet on the better health status for the first child. If he
gets measles, if he gets it when he is nine, the chances are it will be much
lighter than the measles the second child might get. I would bet on the first
child every time.
Q: How long did you work with vaccines?
A: A
long time. Longer than ten years.
Q: Looking back now, can you recall any
good reason to say that vaccines are successful?
A: No, I can't. If I had
a child now, the last thing I would allow is vaccination. I would move out of
the state if I had to. I would change the family name. I would disappear. With
my family. I'm not saying it would come to that. There are ways to sidestep the
system with grace, if you know how to act. There are exemptions you can declare,
in every state, based on religious and/or philosophic views. But if push came to
shove, I would go on the move.
Q: And yet there are children everywhere
who do get vaccines and appear to be healthy.
A: The operative word is
"appear." What about all the children who can't focus on their studies? What
about the children who have tantrums from time to time? What about the children
who are not quite in possession of all their mental faculties? I know there are
many causes for these things, but vaccines are one cause. I would not take the
chance. I see no reason to take the chance. And frankly, I see no reason to
allow the government to have the last word. Government medicine is, from my
experience, often a contradiction in terms. You get one or the other, but not
both.
Q: So we come to the level playing field.
A: Yes. Allow
those who want the vaccines to take them. Allow the dissidents to decline to
take them. But, as I said earlier, there is no level playing field if the field
is strewn with lies. And when babies are involved, you have parents making all
the decisions. Those parents need a heavy dose of truth. What about the child I
spoke of who died from the DPT shot? What information did his parents act on? I
can tell you it was heavily weighted. It was not real information.
Q:
Medical PR people, in concert with the press, scare the hell out of parents with
dire scenarios about what will happen if their kids don't get shots.
A:
They make it seem a crime to refuse the vaccine. They equate it with bad
parenting. You fight that with better information. It is always a challenge to
buck the authorities. And only you can decide whether to do it. It is every
person's responsibility to make up his mind. The medical cartel likes that bet.
It is betting that the fear will
win.
_________________________________________________________________
Dr.
Mark Randall is the pseudonym of a vaccine researcher who worked for many years
in the labs of major pharmaceutical houses and the US government's National
Institutes of Health.
Mark retired during the last decade. He says he was
"disgusted with what he discovered about vaccines."
As you know, since
the beginning of nomorefakenews, I have been launching an attack against
non-scientific and dangerous assertions about the safety and efficacy of
vaccines.
Mark has been one of my sources.
He is a little
reluctant to speak out, even under the cover of anonymity, but with the current
push to make vaccines mandatory -- with penalties like quarantine lurking in the
wings -- he has decided to break his silence.
He lives comfortably in
retirement, but like many of my long-time sources, he has developed a conscience
about his former work. Mark is well aware of the scope of the medical cartel and
its goals of depopulation, mind control, and general debilitation of
populations.